Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Any examples used are for illustrative purposes only and do not take into account your particular investment objectives, financial situation or needs and may not be suitable for all investors. It is not intended to predict the performance of any specific investment and is not a solicitation or recommendation of any investment strategy.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: This is another money show. Get set for another hour of the latest financial information and economic news affecting your bottom line. J.R. and Anthony are committed to helping more Americans like you optimize their inc. Reduce their tax risk and reach financial freedom. So let's start the show. Here are your hosts, Anthony Correjo and J.R. rochford.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Here we are, your hosts, Anthony Carrel and Junior Rochford. Just kidding. No, J.R. today and because he really is taking a break from his day to day as financial advisors with Rochford and Associates, a fully independent fourth generation family office right here in Sun City, bringing information you may not find on those other financial radio shows. We're aware the last thing you need is another money show, but we appreciate you listening anyways. And I will say I know you probably already tuned out when I said that JR wasn't here, but even better, we've got Joe Jaquin of the Patriot Trading Group. So thanks for being here.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Yes. I don't think it's any accident JR's not here today.
Right. The markets have had a tough week and, and everybody's probably like wanting to know what's going to happen next and you know, just, just happens today. He's, he's unavailable.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: I know, right. This is what he's been talking about for four years on the show and it's all happening at once. And where is he?
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah, where is he?
[00:01:46] Speaker C: The market going down makes sense to me that. I understand it's the gold and silver that doesn't. But, and before, you know, last week I had a question aimed up for you which we can cover up now because I'm, I'm, I'm really not concerned about this drop in silver at all. I mean we've been talking about for years silver's undervalued. So it makes sense that we are seeing these increases that we were. However, as far as I'm concerned and I'm, I'm happy about it, I'm a silver owner. But it went from like 20 to 40 overnight and then after that was 40 to 80 and then it was 80 to 120 like nothing. Now we're around 80, a little less than 80 again, but that skyrocket in like six months. I mean I, I know it should go up. I wanted it to go up, but how did it go up that fast, that quickly?
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah, and, and it's great question. It's been a perfect storm in the silver market.
Obviously the silver market isn't a huge market.
So paper can control the silver market until the demand and supply. I guess fundamentals get so far out of whack that you end up with these, you know, super squeezes, which is what we saw.
You know, last year at this time silver wasn't, wasn't even $30 right in, right around 28, $29 closed the year out just under $75.
And then in the course of like less than four weeks, it went from 75 to 120.
And now we've seen this pullback, if you follow my show at all. We were telling you this was coming and we, we told you that it was going to be pretty significant in the pullback, not because it had, you know, something changed in the supply, demand, fundamentals just because it's gone so far so fast that eventually people need to take profits down. And usually when the market gets real heavy like this, there's opportunities to be made.
JP Morgan put in a great short right at the same time the COMEX raised margin requirements. It was a perfect opportunity to make some money on the shorts and really cool off this market. And that's what we saw play out. JP Morgan closed their short position out the same day. They did it all in one day.
They short it, closed it out at $74.
And right now Silver's been holding 70 this week.
That's going to be the key. If silver holds 70, I think you'll see silver back at 100 fairly quickly. There is a chance if it doesn't hold 70, we could see 55. 55 was the first spot when gold broke through 50 that it ran into a little resistance. The market went to 55, fell back to 47 and then to Anthony's point, seemed like it went from 47 to 120 with very little stops in between.
So that's kind of what we're looking at right now. Are we done?
Is it over?
Do we go back a little farther to 55? But longer term silver is in a major shortage. This 2006 will be the sixth year in a row where there was more demand than supply. And we gotten to the point now the good part was six years ago we had a huge supply of silver above ground. That supply now has completely diminished. And so the longer term trend is still of much higher silver prices than Today, simply because there's more demand than there is supply. And until that changes, you're just going to see the price continue to rise, trying to bring supply and demand into balance.
[00:06:08] Speaker C: So I just want to clarify because we've talked about or you've mentioned short in a couple of different ways. First of all, saying that Chase is shorting the paper silver, and then also that there is a short supply, but in standard economic, supply and demand should bring out what that price is. And that's what you're talking about is we have excess demand. People want silver. There's a physical short supply of it. However, paper manipulation is getting involved now with J.P. morgan, Jason, and they listen.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: J.P. morgan was involved in the manipulation on the way up as well. They actually, they, they gave up when Silver got above 50, closed out their short positions, went long.
You know, silver had the big rally. Then this time around, they're like, you know, I know people get frustrated. You know, people that really follow the gold and silver market, especially the silver market, they get frustrated with the paper markets always, you know, intervening.
I don't. I think it's a natural, healthy part of the market.
If you see a potential to make some money, whether you're going to go long or go short, by all means you should. And like I said, this one was well overdue. It's been a great correction, a good opportunity for people to buy silver at a lower price. But the funny part is, Anthony, the premiums to buy the silver have increased during this pullback as once again, the supply just isn't sufficient.
The physical supply of silver just isn't sufficient.
And I think, you know, whenever this correction is done, whether it's done already or it goes to 55, it will stay there very long.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: And that kind of reminds me of COVID because I remember silver dropping to about 17, but the premiums to actually buy the physical skyrocket also, you just, you couldn't find it. So how is it dropping in price when there's such a high demand but the value is dropping like that?
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah, Covid was a great point. Silver, $18, and you couldn't get silver for less than 36 because the premiums were so high. And most of the time, as a, you know, I've been in the gold and silver business for 30 years and you couldn't get it. People would call, Joe, I want silver. I want silver Eagles don't have any. Well, can I just buy them and you get them later? Nope, Nobody. I can't even order it from anybody this time. Around it's not as bad as Covid was yet, but premiums have doubled just in the last, well, since Friday. Since not even a week ago, premiums have doubled. Wait times are now anywhere from three to four weeks, Tom. And depending on the day. There are certain days now where, hey, depending on what you want, I can't get you that today, but I could get you, you know, this or this or this. But by and large right now there, there is supply out there if you're patient.
The problem is the more and more people taking advantage of these lower price points, that supply is going to exhaust itself pretty quickly. And then you'll be in a situation where, hey, you may not be able to order, say silver eagles as an example, you may have to to buy silver rounds or silver bars, utility silver.
Those situations I fully expect to occur.
The longer I guess the pullback last, if this goes on, say for a month or two, I think it'll be very difficult to get physical silver. If it comes right back, I think we'll be okay.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: And what would you say?
And I know there's obviously variations, but your standard premium over spot price, what's the average versus what you're seeing now?
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's, it, it has been insane.
When you go back to last week, I was buying, let's just use silver eagles as an example. I was buying them $10 back of spot, $10 under melt and was, you know, situations because we're worried, gosh, you could wake up tomorrow. Silver can be down 30, $40 like it was. So everybody was being cautious. A lot of the local dealers that don't have the resources that, that patriot has stopped buying it all together because they just were like, hey, I'm out of money or I can't, I can't turn this into cash fast enough. We, we've got a different operation here that makes it a little easier for us. But today, so last week at third, you know, one week ago I was buying it at $10 under spot. Today, if you have silver eels, I'll pay you $4 over spot if you're selling it to me. Now on the retail side of things, the same problem has occurred. My retail price over spot has increased during the pullback. So I'm actually, you're, you know, when you look at what do I have to pay for silver eagles as an example, you're looking at almost $10 over spot today where last week it was about $4.
[00:11:56] Speaker C: And is that, what would that, what would you say that is again, percentage wise? Because I know that fluctuates to just say 4 versus 10 is a lot different for what that.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So as an example today, as you said, let's just take a quick look here at the silver price. So you guys could see it here. We're right around six at $76.
And you can buy Silver Eagles today. Rolls of 20 at 1795 for me, but that's $89.75 on a $76 spot price. But of course, when you think about, okay, I gotta pay almost $10 to buy the silver, then all of a sudden you're like, oh, hey, that's a, that's a pretty good, you know, pretty tight spread.
But that's also the reason why I'm paying $4 over spot today.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: Nice. I mean, yeah, if you can turn around and flip it like that. Because again, the demand isn't reflecting what the actual price is.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Correct. That's one of the ways we can be cheaper than a lot of other places. But it's still, it's a, it is unfortunate. I think that a lot of smaller retail, you know, whether they're coin stores or dealers, they're gonna probably go out of business because of some of these things. Because it is one of the, one of the things about a market like this when you have so many of them not being able to buy and sell, you know, that puts you out of business. So it's, it is unfortunate. These wild swings, they hurt the little guy.
And that's what happened, you know, from Friday to today.
It was the little guys that got hurt. Right. It wasn't JP Morgan didn't get hurt. You know, obviously if you, if you own silver, you're like, oh, gosh, the value of my silver took a hit. But that's a short term thing, and it only took a hit if you sold it. I'm more worried about the other business. You know, people that, you know, I should be happy that, you know, hey, some of my competition is going to be there anyway. But I know there's plenty of room for all of us in this industry.
It's been a scary week.
[00:14:07] Speaker C: That makes sense. Jared and I say that as advisors too. It's like, we don't really need to compete with everybody. There's a lot of people that need help, so.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's nice.
[00:14:16] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: And those relationships, having good relationships, that's what this is all about. You know, there's a lot to be said for that. And people, you know, you trust them, you build these relationships over years. So you hate to See it happen.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: And with JP or JP Morgan Chase coming up a few times, JR's got a friend, been a friend of the family, an old neighbor for a long time, and he's been telling us for a long time that silver really hasn't been to the levels we felt it should be at because they were constantly tampering it down. Is that something you believe too? And how exactly does that work? How is Chase such a big player in the silver market?
[00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so JP Morgan has been on the, the silver board, if you will. There's a handful of banks that, that set the spot price in London, you know, so just so people know, the spot price of silver is set in London, New York with the comex. Those are contract prices for delivery. They're two separate things. That's why sometimes the price on the TV doesn't match what the spot price is because the con, like the silver contracts. A March contract, well, we're only in February, so the TV will show one price. Spot price may be slightly different, but they're usually fairly close.
But, but J.P. morgan has been a major player in the, the precious metals market since they were created really to buy and sell silver and copper and gold and all the rest of it. So they are the ones that have the biggest pockets in the industry. So they are the ones, if they make a move, they can move the market. That's why I said the silver market isn't as robust as, say, the gold market or of the oil market as an example.
It's a little easier to get volatility in the silver market. And got to remember JP Morgan, they're traders, so that's, they want volatility. That's how they make money.
[00:16:36] Speaker C: No, that makes sense.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So people, I will say the silver guys hate them.
But again, you know, JP Morgan is doing what they're supposed to do.
And obviously, unfortunately, they do create extremes. Right. The price of silver went up really, really fast because they were suppressing the price for too long. And then it snaps. And, and of course then you get pullbacks like we saw, you know, Friday in this week. And, and that was, you know, really, you can blame JP Morgan for, for that because they're, they're supposed to be the ones that kind of keep the market tradable. And, and right now a lot of people, like I was talking about other competition, they had no choice. But hey, I can't, I'm not in it. I'm not going to be in the silver market. I had two major bullion suppliers simply stop selling Silver. And they did that three months ago and just said, you know what? It's too dangerous, it's too risky for us to be involved in. And, and you can definitely blame JP Morgan and the other banks for creating that situation. And, and it makes it very difficult. You got to be very smart in that if, especially if you're on the physical side of silver, you had to be really, really smart to make sure you were able to stay in business when the pullback did come.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: What do you think took them so long? If you're saying that trading, you know, the ups and downs and the volatility is rarely where these guys make their money. What's taken so long? Because I feel like it's just been really slow moving for a very long time. I mean, we had the last time before these new highs. I feel like the last time was decades ago and it was in the 40s. Right. And we saw that volatility, then the crash, and that never quite recovered up until literally this last year.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah, and, and really good points. You know, the financial crisis, after the financial crisis, silver touched 50, hadn't touched 50 since 1980, but then it went from 50 all the way back down to like $14.
And then all of a sudden, here comes this run.
Like I said, this is the sixth year of shortages.
Physical demand outpacing physical supply. And, and they were just, I think, either hoping or just slow to react. You know, you got to remember gold started running two years ago. Silver didn't go until last year. So they, they were probably a year behind silver. Two years ago probably should have been 50 or $60.
And then 2020 in 2024 and then 2025, they probably should have went to $75, $80, it would have, it wouldn't have been such a steep curve.
But they were so heavy into the, the short positions, they just, I guess, misread the market. But then again, you know, when we look at silver demand, AI and data centers, this demand now is, is. It seems like it's almost unabated. And then you have robotics, right. The other day, one of the major rating agencies. Hey, Tesla's not a car maker anymore. They're, they're going to be, you know, they're going to have, in five years, you're going to have a robot in your house doing your dishes and mowing your lawn.
That all requires large quantities of silver.
And I think that they were shocked at A, how much silver was really needed in B.
Oh, my gosh, we really, they really can't get more Silver out of the ground. They, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people thought, well, gosh, it's 60, 70, $800 silver, they should be able to double and triple the mine supply of silver. And that's just not the case.
They are, believe me. These mines are running 24 hours a day, seven days a week, getting every ounce of silver and gold that they possibly could get out of the ground.
The, the issue is, hey, if there are some mines that maybe they abandoned now, that may take a year or two to get them back online if there's enough silver to make it worthwhile.
But the problem is, is, well, gosh, the, yeah, we've got more silver, but it's, it's over in the middle of nowhere. There's no roads, there's no power, there's no people.
It's going to take five or 10 years for that to actually come online. And I think this is kind of really, you know, call it a perfect storm.
All the things that have been, I guess, good in the economy, AI data centers, you know, solar, electric cars, robots, all requires large quantities of silver. And the problem is it's not easy to substitute something for silver. It is the best conductor of electricity. And that's the other problem.
It's not like, well, gosh, we'll just use this instead.
There is no this instead, it's only silver.
[00:22:13] Speaker C: That was going to be. My next question is, is there an alternative? And is there, you know, is it worthwhile to look at the potential of that, of that alternative as a future investment to see if there's going to be a switch?
[00:22:27] Speaker A: But you're saying solar? Yeah, there are some solar development that is thinking that maybe they can replace some of the silver, but that's all I've seen you got. You know, we haven't even talked solid state batteries. Another big new thing, silver. There, there is as of yet nothing on a very large scale that says, hey, we're going to be able to find something cheaper than silver and still get the results that we need. And as long as that remains the case, I mean, you know, and I know it's, it, it's, it's, it's hard, but, you know, people talking about $300 silver.
Listen, guys, that's a very real potential if they're not able to either figure out how to use less silver or figure out how to find something better than silver or at least close enough or as good as silver that costs less. And right now, Anthony, that doesn't exist.
[00:23:37] Speaker C: No, that's I mean, it's got to be good for your industry. Well, obviously you said earlier, not necessarily for some of the small players having to deal with this volatility, but yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: I'm hoping this ends. Really what I'd like to see is, is, hey, you know, silver is up a dollar today or down a dollar today, or is up, you know, two or three dollars or down two or three dollars that people can operate in that space. It is extremely difficult to operate with. Gosh, silver's up $30 or down $30, it's up $10, down $12 and $. Sometimes it does it all in one day.
It is a very difficult environment.
You could have some dealers, you know, and I hope I'm one of them that comes out of this really, really well.
But you're going to have a lot of others that through, you know, really, you know, I don't want to say no fault of their own, but just thought they made a good deal in literally the next day.
That deal was terrible.
And then you get, that's how you get into trouble. And right now there's not enough refinery capability within the United States. And it has caused a huge problem because the refiners, they've got so much silver and they're running 24 hours a day to make delivery bars for the Comex in London. They've literally stopped buying from the local coin shops and that was a big part of their business. I'm fortunate that, that I don't have to use the refiners. I've got other places that I go with my silver.
But I'm hoping it settles down and everybody can, can operate in, you know, within normal parameters.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Do you see?
Because when I see volatility like this, especially when again, you talk about the short squeeze, do you see any correlations to what's going on with silver, with what was going on with GameStop, the stock.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Meme stock sort of speak, you know, there, there, there is some of that obviously when, when you hit this, that, that euphoria, if you will, when silver is moving $30 in either direction in a single day, that's not normal, that's not healthy. It's great. I guess if you own silver, when it's going up like that, it also sucks when, gosh, I bought on that day and then the next day I look like an idiot.
And so, yeah, I think there's some of the, and again that, that, that falls on like JP Morgan and those guys, HSBC bank that are, are setting the silver price every day, they've done a very poor job and, and I hope that after this pullback here, things get more in order.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Nice. Well, I appreciate you talking silver with us. We're going to go on a quick break and we'll be back with Joe Jaquin of the Patriot Trading Group and we'll, we'll deep dive a little bit more into the precious metals. I know this is more of a, a one topic show this episode, but I'm, I'm really enjoying the deep diving. Hopefully our, our listeners are too. We'll be right back.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: To schedule your free, no obligation consultation with JR and Anthony, call 623-523-0444 or visit anothermoneyshow Do.
At Rochford and Associates, we know you've worked hard to earn your money and you've worked even harder to save it. When it comes to wealth management and planning for retirement. JR Rochford and his team of specialists have been helping individuals, families and business owners find financial freedom at their veteran owned firm for more than 25 years. Give us a call now at 623-52304. 444. That's 623-523-0444.
This is another money show.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: If they're not enjoying this, I'm enjoying it.
I'm learning a lot.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: I will say this, it's been, you know, we, we were really well positioned for Friday and this week and it, and it's, it's unfortunate because I know a lot of the smaller coin stores, they're just stuck and, and the ones that stopped buying did the right thing but as were the ones that didn't. That, that it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough and I just don't see it changing anytime soon. The refiners are, they won't buy utility silver. They won't buy and if it's not 395, they won't even buy it. But the problem is they're taking four months to pay. And you know, these little guys, they can't go four months, you know.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: And when you say little guys, are you talking about like shops like yeah.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah, your local coin shops and stuff like that. It mean they got to the point where, you know, just a case of silver, it's $60,000. Well, hey, I'm just a little guy. I, I can't wait four months to get $60,000 in cash or 100,000. And you know, these were guys that would go to the refineries regularly and normally you got your money in two Weeks. And that was how business ran. And it ran that way for decades. And then all of a sudden, here comes this crazy market. And you know, the sad part is it's not like the refiners called them and said, hey, next week I'm going to stop taking silver. They don't even know. Literally you come to work that morning and you find out.
[00:29:41] Speaker C: So, so it goes from the mines to the refineries to your shop. So the mines are taken or they're getting the raw product. Raw product goes to the refineries and it's pressed into silver eagles.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: And yeah, so yeah, it goes to the, the comex.
Then the.
Whether the mint uses sunshine to buy the thousand ounce bars and they turn them into the coins and then the mint presses them. But the bigger problem, the refiners are where you go to, they'll just melt it back into thousand ounce bars.
So a coin shop could know, hey, I could buy silver at $3 back a spot. And I know I can sell it to the refiner and make a dollar an ounce. And that's been my business model. If I don't, I don't have to worry about, I can keep it or I can dump it and I can always dump it tomorrow and turn that back into cash. And that went away and they're not allowed to dump. So now it's, you got to sit on the silver and hope you sell it. And then when the price moves against you, well, maybe you can sell it now, but you bought it at 120 and now you're selling it for 88, you know, 90.
You're going out of business. It's dangerous out there.
[00:31:03] Speaker C: I never thought about that part because I always just assumed like if I go into your shop and I sell you my silver, you hold on to it and then you resell it. You're saying that's an option. You can do that, but in some cases you just sell it back to the refinery to repress it to do whatever they want with it.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's like, hey, that's too big of a risk. Like a guy comes in and sells 5,000 ounces of silver. That's a lot of money.
Really? Like, okay, man, I, I got, I don't know what the market's going to do tomorrow. I don't want to get stuck with this. I'm just going to dump it. I'm going to make a little bit. Obviously if you retail out, you could make more. Right. But hey, I don't want to take that risk.
And, and that option, that escape valve for these guys is gone. And so now it's either don't buy it at all or you've got to risk the price doing what it did this last week. And well, you know, the ones that didn't buy at all are the ones that can survive. The ones that didn't do that. Sooner or later they're closing up shop and the question will be which customers paid for stuff that aren't. They aren't going to get right. That's going to be the end. And it just sucks. It sucks.
It shouldn't work this way. The market shouldn't be this volatile that people can't earn a living doing this. So that, that's the part that, you know, I'm fortunate. I've been in this business almost 30 years and I've learned a lot. You know, if I had gotten into this business after the financial crisis, I'd probably be out of business today.
[00:32:42] Speaker C: And can I ask you questions on that? Like how did you get into this business? Where like this passion come from? Also, I figured we, I mean our conversation started so good when we were supposed to be on break. I told Sam to just keep rolling. So.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:56] Speaker C: Use all this stuff too, because it's, it's fascinating.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: But yeah, tell me, tell me about you and what got you into this business.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Well, you know, it's funny is it was actually my wife, her father, my father in law and her uncle, my, I guess my, my wife's father's brother.
They were both in the gold business because their father. So my, my wife's grandfather.
[00:33:24] Speaker C: That's a family practice.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah, they were in the gold business. And it just kind of evolved in, in 2000, early 2000s, my father in law had lived in Missouri that he had gotten divorced from my wife's stepmom and he came back to Arizona.
And I was very close with, with Eric, my wife's uncle. We were pretty good friends.
And when my father in law came to town, he kind of said, hey, we're going to do this together, let's go. I had a job at the time where I traveled a lot. I was on the road, you know, 48, 50 weeks a year.
And I had two small kids. So it was a, hey, let's take a shot here, let's do this. And we all kind of came together and both of them have passed now.
And, and, and here I am, you know, kind of almost like I said, 25 plus years later.
Just really always been passionate about news. I, I'm a News junkie. I, I do that. That's something that I like in, in learning, you know, about the central bank. You know, I read the Creature from Jekyll island, and as soon as I read that, that was it, you know, I was hooked into, you know, these, these banks. They're not your friend. They really, truly aren't. And sound money is something that just made a lot of sense to me and really resonated with me. And, and I'm really passionate about it. And, and it's worked out, you know, when I started. It's kind of funny, you know, gold wasn't even $300 an ounce. The silver by the first roll of silver eagles I ever sold was $125.
And now I'm talking about Gossela on sale at $1795. You know, I mean, last Thursday, they were almost $3000. So it's been, it's something where it's been really unique. They were, they were on the. Right. About the first radio show I was due to was actually Short Wave.
And Short wave, there's no commercial breaks, right. You go for an hour, you know, and I was one of those guys. I was always worried I didn't have enough stuff. And so I, I printed out, I have stack of stuff to talk about now, quite honestly, it was funny when we were talking before the show, you're like, hey, what do you want to talk about? I'm like, I don't know. Whatever it is, you know, I, I, I can talk for hours and hours about it. And it's just one of those things now where I've been truly blessed. You know, God has put me in this position. I feel that, you know, just seems to happen that way for me where he puts opportunity in front of me, and I've been really, really blessed. And, and the cool part, kind of like with you and, and J.R. i think why me and Junior get along so well. We want to help people.
You know, I don't have all the answers, but I know that, that I'm going to treat you honestly and fairly.
And by doing that, things seem to work out really well. And I know that you and Jerry, you guys do the same thing. Hey, we're just humble people. We're going to try to help. We're going to do the best we possibly can for you. Put your best interest at heart, and those things tend to work out.
[00:37:15] Speaker C: Yeah, you can still make a living and not take advantage.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: That really builds up that I don't.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: Need to be, I don't need to be the rich guy and, and drive, you know, fancy cars and live in some gated neighborhood and, and have a yacht and all that stuff.
That's not what this is about. This is just about being able to help other people and provide for my family at the same time. And I've been truly blessed, no doubt.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: And with your experience, I mean, been doing this a long time, especially following the news. What's going on with the banks? I mean we're, we're losing the dollar, silver, gold have been consistent, I mean obviously fluctuations and pricing, but goes up because the demand is there with the dollar in a crunch, like in a critical point. Because I, I think the world reserve currency has a lifespan of like 80 to 120 years historically. And we're, we're right in that cusp. Do you think that will, you know, is there metals going to be more consistent throughout? I mean, I feel like historically they are more consistent. But do you think in the changing period from, you know, whatever we go to next, the digital US dollar or they pick some crypto that's already out there? You know, I've heard xrp, I've heard bitcoin. Obviously, I don't think the US Government will just take a coin that's out there and make it their own. They're going to have their own from the beginning. But what do you think that with the, the addition of, because safe money used to always be get out of stocks and bonds, you go into metals. Now we've got this alternative in all of these cryptos and I feel like with the volatility in the market and the weirdness, a lot of people are choosing especially a newer generation going to the cryptos as opposed to metals. But how do you see that all kind of working together?
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Yeah, really interesting, great question too. Crypto is exciting.
It is, it is in its infancy.
You know, bitcoin really only what, 12, 13, 14 years ago did people really start hearing about it. And so many have come now.
You know, and I'm, I'm involved in some crypto projects myself.
This is, you know, it's high risk, high reward.
But you know, what's happening right now when you're talking about the dollar and the reserve currency and all of those things when, when you end up with, you know, I'll be honest, we set up this, this game where we, we gave all these countries great trade deals so they would buy our debt. I mean, that was the deal, right? And, and of course now we're like, well, wait a minute, hey, that's not right. We, you know, we need to have fair trade, not free trade. And of course they're like, well gosh, now you're changing the world. Now you know what, I don't want as many dollars. You know, whether you like what happened say in Venezuela or what's going on with Iran, a lot of other countries just look at that as okay, I need to have less exposure just in case. Right, Just in case America decides to get mad at us.
You know, take Greenland as an example.
The rules of the game are changing, but really it's not just a turn from the dollar, it's a turn away from fiat. And the logic had always been, okay, well at $3,000 gold people will stop buying it and central banks will stop buying it. They didn't.
Okay, well they'll do it at 4,000, right? They'll stop buying it at 4,000.
They haven't. Well, how about 5,000?
No, matter of fact, they just bought 39 more metric tons last month and gold was at an all time record high.
And the reason, it's pretty simple, Anthony. It's just, okay, do I want to hold a country's debt, whether it's US, Treasuries, Europeans. How about Japan? We really want all Japanese debt right now? Of course not.
And so I think what we're seeing is all of these other countries around the world just being cautious and saying, hey, we need to take a small amount of, of what we have and have it not be in fiat money. And, and you're just seeing that happen in unison. You know, we have all time record high gold demand for central banks. And listen, they're central banks, they're supposed to love fiat money.
The fact that central banks don't love it tells you all, all you need to know. And you're right, when this is over, we'll have something else. And I think I, and I think it's going to be Baker controlled. Right? Not, not, not a crypto that already exists. Right. They can't help themselves, will probably have some form of a, a Federal Reserve or a US crypto dollar that's either controlled by the Fed, most likely by the Fed, maybe, maybe the Treasury.
But most, more than likely it'll be the Federal Reserve.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: I can't imagine the Fed giving up control.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it's too much control, it's too much power.
But I do think, everybody, listen, you can't fight it. You may hate it. I know a lot of my gold customers, silver customers, crypto is kind of like the opposite of That I get it.
But you need to know how to operate in that space. You're going to be better off.
Can you survive without being in the crypto space? Sure you can.
But it's going to provide people some opportunities to do some cool things and just know, knowing it, learning something, you're never too old to learn something new.
And plus it'll, it'll give you, I think, a better understanding of how it works. Because I will say for a, I guess a currency, okay, there may not been there, there. This may be the best thing that's ever been invented because it's the ultimate tracking device. And really when you're talking about money, you want to know where did the money go? Right. You know, our Defense Department can't pass an audit and hasn't passed an audit for 40 years. And we think it's okay with, with, with digital money.
It makes it very, very, it's hard to, it's. I don't know that it's ever been counterfeited. I don't think it can be, you know, one of the, one of the things you can send my money instantaneously. You know, the cool thing that I like about crypto is you don't have to use a bank.
Of course, the banks hate that. Right? I kind of like that, you know, but, but it's, it's something where it's inevitable. The fiat money reign, I think is coming to an end.
And it's not just the United States, you know, does that happen in five years, 10 years, 20 years? That I don't know.
But you can see it's here, right? You know, our debt's almost 40 trillion or printing stupid amounts of money. Nobody seems, you know, all anyone wants to do is print more money. And eventually that's how it, you know, that's how fiat money ends up going to zero.
[00:45:18] Speaker C: But do you think that works hand in hand with metals? Is it going to be an alternative to metals or is it just going to be its own separate.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. Right. I think you're going to see a lot of metals be what I'll call cryptoized, you know, where they, they use it as a backing for, you know already as an example, the BRICS, they put together a payment system.
It's 40% gold and 12% in the five founder countries, currency priced in gold. So it's really, hey, pay each other in gold. There's got to be those alternatives.
I will say this, it's another cool thing about the Crypto environment, you could make anything and have it compete, right? You could have a gold back crypto, a silverback crypto and say, hey, you get to decide one of the biggest things. Ron Paul used to advocate for this all the time. For you Ron Paul fans out there, hey, just let money compete. If the dollar's the best of money, then people will use it. If there's something better, let people use it. And of course, in technology today, you could make just about anything money today.
And that's kind of a cool thing.
[00:46:49] Speaker C: So this is going to change topics a little bit. We have a listener listens every week and he was excited for you to be on and he really, he's asked us questions about this in the past. We've had discussions. But figure you, you'll be a little bit more of the expert. But I know technically, you know, we can't give tax advice. This isn't tax advice. But he wanted to know about the taxation of metals. He specifically asked about a gold IRA. And I'm just assuming gold IRAs are tax deductible. When you buy them, you pay the taxes on all withdrawals and those are handled no differently than a standard ira.
[00:47:27] Speaker A: Yes, yes. So great question. Let's. I'll answer the IRA part and then I'll answer for the part that you have at your home or wherever.
[00:47:38] Speaker C: That's what I, that was the one I really wanted to discuss.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: So let's, let's start with the IRA part. It really is very much like any other ira with one exception. Instead of you buying stocks or bonds or ETFs, you're going to buy physical metals. The rules are very, very simple. If you want to do an ir, a precious metals ira, call us and, and we can help you do that.
The, the way it works is you have a fiduciary. In our case, we use a company called, called Gold Star Trust.
They are going to be the administration administrator of the ira.
A company like mine, all as we do is buy the metal on your behalf. Whether gold, silver, a combination of you have some storage. You can store it in Delaware, you can store it in Texas, you could store it in Nevada.
And you pick where you want it to be stored. And it works just like any other traditional ira. Right. If the price of gold and silver go up, the value on your account goes up. If it goes down, it goes lower. The cool part is the administration fees on a gold and silver ira are like $250 a year and that includes the storage. So you don't pay like 1% of your IRA or something like that. You pay an administration fee and a storage fee. It's about 250 bucks a year.
That's the only fee. And then when you sell it right, you call up being say, hey Joe, I need to, whether I got to take distribution because I hit the age or hey, I just, I, I just need to sell sub that's a taxable event and your administrator will handle that. You'll get a 1099. And obviously if you made a profit from when you bought it to when you sold it, you're going to owe the taxes on that.
And, and it, like I said, it works. We call it a self directed ira.
[00:49:47] Speaker C: Are you saying that you only owe taxes on the growth?
[00:49:50] Speaker A: Well, if you start it from scratch, if you transfer an existing ira, which you can do a trustee to trustee transaction, then yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna owe the taxes because you didn't pay taxes on the money you put in there to begin with. So you're going to get taxed on what you know, however much of if you sold it all, you're going to get taxed on all of it. If you have you sold a portion of it, you're going to get taxed on that portion of it. Or like I said, if you created one out of the blue, you can set it up to where you only pay on the profit of it. But if you're rolling the existing ones over, you got to pay the whole amount.
[00:50:33] Speaker C: So like I think it's 8,000 right now for under 50 to start an IRA. So if I fully fund the 8,000, but it would, I guess I would still get the deduction. So the whole thing is still going to be taxable, right?
[00:50:47] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. Yeah. At the end of it, and I will say this, there is a minimum and it's 5,000, so you can't start one for less than that.
But, but that, that, that is the minimum. But that's how that works. And it really very similar to any other ira, except for the difference is you're storing precious metals versus buying stocks or bonds and the, the administrator handles all the tax stuff.
[00:51:15] Speaker C: Gotcha.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Inside legally they don't allow, I can't do it because that's just how they set it up. So you can either be the administrator or the person that provides the medal. You can't be both.
[00:51:28] Speaker C: Now that makes sense to keep all that separate.
[00:51:30] Speaker A: Yeah, but what if I would never want to be an administrator anyway? So.
[00:51:33] Speaker C: Yeah, and what if we take the the IRS, the IRAs out of the equation and I'm just buying and selling physical non qualified regular bank money. How are, how are those taxes handled? If I go and I buy from you and then I hold it for a year and I sell it back to deal.
[00:51:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So here's the I, I like it. Now they've actually made the laws better for guys like me where you're buying and selling gold. For me, they used to have certain criteria where I had to report you in 1099 you if you sold 25 Maple Leafs or 25 Krugerrands or you sold more than a bag of junk and all just kind of weird little things today.
The only time I have to 1099 anybody is if you come in with a 400 ounce gold delivery bar or thousand ounce silver delivery bars. I have to 1099 you. Here's the thing guys. I won't take either of them.
So you're never going to get it. At least the way the law sit for me. You can buy and sell for me all you want without it being a taxable event. But I want you to know this. That doesn't mean you don't owe taxes. Just means I didn't have to 1099 you, you would still, you know, the way I understand it is hey, whatever. If you made a profit, you know, on. Let's just say you bought silver at $20 and you sold it to me at 100.
You, you should pay the tax on that $80 and that you may pronounce, but there won't be a 1099 from me telling the IRS that you sold it.
[00:53:33] Speaker C: Interesting. Okay. Because I was, I was thinking about that and I know that was kind of where the question came from but I was like, I have no idea what the physical.
[00:53:41] Speaker A: Yeah, you come and sell a hundred, two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars to me, there's going to be a check or a bank wire for that amount. And, and if you did. Yeah, you know, and I tell everybody, hey, you're on your own. But you know, if you get caught, that, that's on you.
[00:54:00] Speaker C: You know, that's good to know because we're. I, I didn't know any of that but unfortunately we are out of time. Thank you so much.
Joe Jaquin, Patriot Trading Group. He also has a radio show on 10:10am Monday through Friday. 9 to 10am Right? Correct. Got the time?
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Yes. And when the clocks change, it'll be eight to nine.
[00:54:23] Speaker C: Perfect.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: No wait. I will be eight to nine. But it's still nine o' clock from the they delayed See you had it right.
[00:54:29] Speaker C: Arizona.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: We don't always great talking to you. Tell Junior I hope he I hope he hit every ball in the water today.
[00:54:39] Speaker C: I do too. I've seen him golf. It's awful.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: There you go. Hey, God bless everybody. Thank you Anthony, so much.
[00:54:44] Speaker C: Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. That's it for today's show. If you like what you heard, have questions on any of the topics today or want to sit down with us to review your personal financial situation, you can reach us at team@Another Money Show.com find us on the web anothermoney show.com give us a call 623-523-0444. That number again is 623-523-0444. Remember, there's no minimums, no cost for appointments. Nothing to lose by getting a second opinion on your financial situation. We'll see you again next Saturday at 5am and noon right here on 9 60. The Patriots.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to another Money Show. You deserve to work with a private wealth management firm that will strategically work to protect your your hard earned assets. To schedule your free no obligation consultation, visit anothermoneyshow.com investment advisory services offered through Brookstone Capital Management, LLC, BCM. A registered investment advisor. BCM and Rochford Financial are independent of each other. Insurance products and services are not offered through BCM but are offered and sold through individually licensed and appointed agents. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Past performance cannot be used as an indicator to determine future results.
